Interview
20 Feb 1999
Two brains? More like four, and counting
John Walsh"At the time of this writing," writes Steve Martin at the
beginning of Pure Drivel, "I have not worked in a movie for three years.
During these years, in which I vowed to do nothing and leave myself alone
about it, I accidentally produced several plays,a handful of sketches, two
screenplays and a re-organisation of my entire self." It wasn't his first
attempt to leave a lucrative career in the movies. In 1993, shortly after
splitting up with his wife Victoria Tennant, he told The New Yorker he had
"gone as far as I could in light comedy", after Housesitter with Goldie
Hawn, and was postponing all movie projects in order "to see if I can
accomplish something new".
The perennially restless Martin has long been the resident intellectual
aesthete among Hollywood's acting community. Born in Waco, Texas, he studied
"symbolic logic" at Long Beach State University, began writing sketches for
the Smothers Brothers, appeared with a troupe of dogs on Johnny Carson's
Tonight show, and hit fame and stardom on Saturday Night Live in 1976. The
one-time wild and crazy guy has starred in a score of hit movies, including
The Jerk, All of Me, The Man With Two Brains, Roxanne, Father of the Bride,
Grand Canyon, Parenting, LA Story and The Spanish Prisoner. He has won Emmys
for his television writing.
Pure Drivel, however, does represent a new beginning for the
silver-haired comedian: a mix of urbane wit and surreal extrapolations of
serious ideas. Think Douglas Adams-meets-Flann O'Brien. In these pieces,
many first published in The New Yorker, Socrates has a dialogue about
privacy with two paparazzi photographers, the five-times-married Lolita Haze
is discovered selling real estate, the author realises that his bird-bath is
an original Raphael, a new drug turns furious installation artists into
painters of dogs playing poker, and a sudden shortage of full stops causes a
run on question marks. Steve Martin lives in Los Angeles but has a house in
New York, where I spoke to him.
John Walsh: Where do the pieces start from? I have a picture in my
head of it being 9am and you're in your Chinese silk robe sipping a
decaffeinated latte when you read something in the paper about
post-modernism, and your eyes narrow ...
Steve Martin: No, it's very very early in the morning, it's about 6.30am
and I'm still in bed with sleepy eyes and my mind starts roaming around a
little bit. Sometimes the same thing happens at night. Or sometimes, in
mid-conversation, something will pop into my head - which I think creates,
in the people I'm around, a feeling of being absent.
They mention it to you, do they?
Either they mention it, or else they just assume I hate them.
Are you a fan of SJ Perelman? He dealt in the comic riff based on
something in the papers ...
Right. I think he originated the idea. And now we all use it as if it was
our own.
Do you scan the papers for inspiration?
I don't search for anything to write about. I just wait until it hits me.
I don't think of myself as a writer, just as a person who gets an idea. I'm
not driven to write. I don't have to earn a living from it. I just wait.
Something usually comes every couple of weeks. At night.
You seem entranced by certain words. Your characters go into paroxysms
of suspicion about words like "feldspar" and "eponym". You throw Frenchified
adjectives around, like "frappe" and "moire". You savour words like "fo'c'sle"
and "cahoots". Do you have a fetish about $10 words?
Would you consider cahoots a $10 word?
In that few people use it in ordinary conversation. Like the word
"irks" that you use in ...
Irks?
"Irks" is terribly Edwardian. Nobody in England has said "irks" in
years.
Maybe not in England. To me they're just common words. I don't use $10
words unless, as with feldspar, they're used as $10 words. Or eponym in the
piece about the love affair between members of Mensa. I thought, Oh yeah,
that's a word the Mensa people would throw around.
Do you ever feel guilty about being paid $3 a word by "The New
Yorker", even for words like "teapot" or "potato"? Or "the"?
That's where we get even with them.
Do you have favourite words that you over-use in conversation?
Absolutely. Because I'm a California boy, I use a lot of "like" and
"beautiful" and "great". I over-used the word "epitome" for a while. And
"esoteric" I like because it applies to so many things in my life.
I can't imagine how a Steve Martin novel would work. Have you tried to
write one?
I've been writing a longer piece. Like all the others, it started out as
a short piece, but then I wrote 50 pages ... I realised it was about
character, and it couldn't be as dense as the smaller ones. And I'm kind of
waiting until it tells me how long it's going to be.
Is it a real novel?
I don't know. I may not even finish it. Pardon the cliche, but it was
something I had to write, about a personal experience, and I didn't really
care how it came out. It's very much about character.
Have you a desk drawer full of your early attempts to write novels
when young?
No. But I did write something when I was young and got it published in a
book called Cruel Shoes. If you read them now, you realise I was ... young.
Your way with crackpot theorising reminds me of the Irish writer Flann
O'Brien. Do you know his stuff?
I've never heard of him.
Whom do you admire among funny prose writers?
I just read some Thurber and ... You know, comedy dates, we're kinda
stuck with that fact. Among contemporaries, there's Bruce McCall, who writes
for The New Yorker, who's very funny. There's a young actor called Jon
Stewart, who's just published abook called Naked Portraits of Famous People
and is very good, and there's Dave Berry, who's syndicated in the Herald
Tribune.
How about novelists?
I love Martin Amis. I loved Money. I've read three or four of his books
and I like them all. I think he's great.
He's very influential in the UK. Seventy per cent of younger English
male writers and journalists have been trying to write like him for 20
years.
I wanted to write like him, too, but I'm not good enough, so it comes out
like my own style. [Laughs].
You have fun with serious ideas. When you make jokes about
Schrodinger's Cat, does the LA media circuit understand what you're on
about?
[Suspiciously] When you say "media", do you mean actors?
I suppose I mean the kind of people who sat around chatting in
fashionable restaurants in "LA Story".
But I don't know those people. I do have a lot of friends who completely
understand what I write. I think the general perception of Hollywood is
probably accurate, but the specific perception of it is probably wrong.
Does the idea of being "well-read" have any currency in LA? Or has the
film script taken over completely?
It doesn't come up much, put it that way.
If you alluded to Goethe or Proust, would it be understood by the
people you deal with?
It depends on the people. In every industry, there's a swaff of people
who you would call "well-read" - I don't consider myself well-read, by the
way - and then there's the mass of people who aren't. But I find actors in
general to be among the smartest people I know, I don't mean learned. I mean
smart and learned enough.
The concept of "dumbing down" has been washing around in the UK for
three years. Are you alarmed by "the strip-mining of American culture"?
I don't think the people themselves have dumbed down, but I think that
what's shown on television is dumbed down. But I don't know if it's really
happening, or is just what we call Old-Fartism.
Is there anything that strikes you as unusually gross?
I think The Jerry Springer Show is bad for us. It shows a sad part of our
society and gives it message-access. And I often think a lot of it is
created. People go on the show with ideas of what they're supposed to be,
and fulfil those expectations. But it's hard to talk about dumbing down when
amazing things still get accomplished, that take incredible brains to do
them, including flying to Mars.
The longest and most serious piece in "Pure Drivel" is called "Hissy
Fit", about a New York writer coming to check out LA and make fun of it. It
ends with you saying, "One should not ridicule one's foolish, fun, poetic
cousin." Do you really think of California as a poetic cousin to New York?
Los Angeles represents to New York this, uh, bad naughty cousin that they
can't quite control or tame or instruct in the proper way to behave. But a
lot of good things come out of Los Angeles.
The word "poetic" tripped me up a bit.
Yeah. It's the home of dreamers.
Let me ask you about art. You write a lot about galleries and
collectors and you're obviously familiar with Damien Hirst and Charles
Saatchi and the BritArt bunch. Do you admire their stuff or are you a
sceptic?
Yes, I do admire it. But I'm friendly with Charles Saatchi and Damien
Hirst, so I'm not a good person to talk about them. I do like the good
installation stuff. It's very compelling. It's the result of people being
unable to paint, not because they don't have the talent but because it's a
bit of a dead end right now. It's been so done, by such great masters, that
everyone's searching around for something else. I've seen some beautiful
video shows, I was very sceptical of that, too, at first, but I've seen some
very powerful shows, like Bill Viola at the Whitney last year, and Rachel
Whiteread.
How's your collection of Pop Art? Is it flourishing?
No, it's morte. It's not something I really like to talk about because it
just creates all kinds of problems. I still have paintings, but ...
Let me ask about your play, "Picasso at the Lapin Agile" [about an
imagined meeting between the painter and Albert Einstein in a Paris cafe in
1904]. Did it ever get produced in the UK?
Sure. It was produced once in England, in Leeds.
You planning any more dramas?
I've written three other short plays, and had them published. They're
harder to do, because they're one-acts. One's called Wasp, and there are
some other short ones, based on magic tricks, called The ZigZag Woman and
Patter for the Floating Lady.
We must get them put on in Britain as soon as possible.
Fine with me. Actually Wasp was done at the Edinburgh Festival last
summer, and was very well received.
What drew you to write about Picasso in Montmartre?
Several things. I started to think about what artists are like just prior
to their great discoveries, when they're just churning. And it was prompted
by the painting Au Lapin Agile, that Picasso did in 1904. I saw it hanging
in the Metropolitan Museum,when it had just been sold for $40m. The frame
itself probably cost $25,000-$35,000. I saw, in John Richardson's biography
of Picasso, a photograph of this painting hanging in the real Lapin Agile
cafe, unframed and unstretched, just hanging on thewall. That got me
thinking about The Journey. And, lastly, I grew up in bars and nightclubs
when I was first doing my act. I used to hang out in the Troubador Bar in
LA. The Eagles were there, Linda Ronstadt was there, Jackson Browne was
there. People were just hanging out in the bar, talking about what they were
going to do with their lives.
There could be a research thesis here. Steve Martin writes a play
about Picasso, Sondheim writes a musical about Seurat called "Sunday in the
Park With George", Paul Simon writes a song called "Rene and Georgette
Magritte With their Dog After the War". Why should an American, actor,
singer and musical composer all turn to 20th-century European painters for
inspiration?
I don't know if it has to do with Europe, but it certainly has to do with
greatness. Anyone who is a thinking artist, I guess, is going to be
motivated by these great people, whether they're American or European.
If you could choose one figure, dead or alive, from the 20th-century
arts or literary world, who would it be?
I've found that, when you meet your heroes, you don't have anything to
say to them except flattery. So I would like to meet Jack Benny, who was a
great comedian but I'd be able to talk to him about our mutual interest,
which is comedy, rather than just say "I think you're great."
What did you admire about him?
He influenced me a lot. He had a beautiful spareness about what he did.
He had what we call perfect timing. He had the courage to wait ...
How did you come to call the collection "Pure Drivel"? You're just
asking for trouble, aren't you?
I think you're asking for trouble in publishing anything. Or doing
anything. But if somebody wants to attack me, the connection is so obvious I
figured they wouldn't have the courage to use it.
There was an American man of letters called Logan Pearsall Smith who
lived in England most of his life, and wrote short pieces and epigrams,
which he published under the titles "Trivia" and "More Trivia".
That's probably the title of my next book. More Drivel.
Your introduction suggests that you hit some kind of wall about movie-
making in 1995. Were you disillusioned with movies generally or with the
roles you were getting?
I didn't like this movie I did, Sergeant Bilko. I didn't like what I was
doing in it, I felt I was going downhill rather than uphill, so I wanted a
break. It's not a bad movie, it's a nice movie for kids, but I felt I was
somehow letting myself down. I was getting a little lost about what I wanted
to do.
Some of your fans thought, after "Father of the Bride II", "Can't he
stop being Mister Rumpled Domestic Nice Guy now, and go back to being
surreal? Just a bit? Just slightly crazy?"
I know what you mean, but I like those movies. I liked Father of the
Bride, both of them. I think they're kind of touching, though I know they're
not exactly avant-garde. And I have another movie with Goldie Hawn that I
know is not avant-garde. It'sThe Out-of-Towners. But I love working with
Goldie, and I love physical comedy, and these pieces of writing that are
being published now supply that part of me which identifies me, I guess. I
just finished a movie with Eddie Murphy called Bowfinger's Big Thing, and
that's going to be out in the summer. I wrote it a year and a half ago, when
I was collecting myself and re-thinking things, so we'll see how that
fulfils the desires of my so-called fans.
Do you still play the banjo?
Yes I do. Still play the banjo, still juggle and I still do magic tricks.
The launch party should be a riot.
Thank you
Steve Martin's `Pure Drivel' is published by Viking on 25 February, price
pounds 9.99